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	<title>Comments on: Teaching Ebonics in school?</title>
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	<description>Dedicated to the eradication of stupidity worldwide.</description>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://www.makestupidityhistory.org/2005/07/20/teaching-ebonics-in-school/comment-page-1/#comment-10786</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jul 2010 19:42:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.makestupidityhistory.org/?p=22#comment-10786</guid>
		<description>Blacks claim that racial discrimination is wrong. Yet, &lt;em&gt;&lt;strong&gt;some&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/em&gt; blacks also claim that they are exempt from the obligation to speak correct English, on account of their skin color, whereas most of them seem to grasp the concept that there&#039;s nothing particularly wrong with expecting white folks to speak and write in accordance with widely accepted grammatical standards in this country if they expect to get ahead (particularly in relation to standardized tests for college admissions). 

In other words, such people advocate a double standard, which is just another way of saying that they advocate a form of racial discrimination. Ironically, when they insist on speaking &quot;da&#039; way dey do in da&#039; hood&quot; (as if the &quot;th&quot; sound is just too hard to make for black folks) and when they suffer the predictable consequences because speaking that way &lt;em&gt;&lt;strong&gt;makes them sound stupid and uneducated to many potential employers&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/em&gt;, they then claim that they have suffered from racial discrimination, when the reality is that it is racially discriminatory to hold black folks to a different behavioral standard on account of their skin pigmentation. A similar phenomenon can be seen with regard to the constant use of certain types of profanity, such as the socially offensive word which refers to a person who commits maternal incest, and also to the &quot;n word&quot;, which one is apparently allowed to say if one is black, judging by the behavior of a lot of inner city black folks. 

Thanks to the &quot;one drop rule,&quot; mixed race people such as Lena Horne and Halle Berry have often identified themselves as &quot;black,&quot; even though they sometimes have such light skin that they can easily pass as white. How are such people supposed to decide whether or not they&#039;re allowed to use &quot;ebonics&quot;? What&#039;s the rule of thumb? If you take an opinion poll and the majority says that one subjectively looks black or at least &quot;black enough,&quot; then ebonics is O.K. or even expected? Talk about arbitrary!

I grew up in the Ozarks. Some of the people there spoke in a grammatically proper manner (as did I, thanks in part to the good influence of my maternal grandmother, who was an English teacher). Others (some of whom might have been described as &quot;hillbillies&quot;) did not. But we didn&#039;t call it &quot;hillbonics&quot; or anything of the sort. We called it improper grammar, because that&#039;s what it was. It is a disservice to children to teach them that ebonics is acceptable, because whether one likes it or not, the decision makers in this country do judge by first impressions. Speaking ebonics suggests that a person never paid close attention in the classroom, if he or she even went to class at all.

I guarantee you that Barack Obama never would have been elected President if he&#039;d spoken the way that a lot of the blacks in Chicago speak. Perhaps if he&#039;d just wanted to be elected alderman in a predominantly black ward, folks there wouldn&#039;t have cared (unless he&#039;d been a Republican, in which case he could just about kiss his chances of election goodbye, since there&#039;s only one Republican alderman in the entire city of Chicago, according to a recent article in the Reader). But why kill one&#039;s chances of further political advancement in the larger world? How exactly is that a form of empowerment?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Blacks claim that racial discrimination is wrong. Yet, <em><strong>some</strong></em> blacks also claim that they are exempt from the obligation to speak correct English, on account of their skin color, whereas most of them seem to grasp the concept that there&#8217;s nothing particularly wrong with expecting white folks to speak and write in accordance with widely accepted grammatical standards in this country if they expect to get ahead (particularly in relation to standardized tests for college admissions). </p>
<p>In other words, such people advocate a double standard, which is just another way of saying that they advocate a form of racial discrimination. Ironically, when they insist on speaking &#8220;da&#8217; way dey do in da&#8217; hood&#8221; (as if the &#8220;th&#8221; sound is just too hard to make for black folks) and when they suffer the predictable consequences because speaking that way <em><strong>makes them sound stupid and uneducated to many potential employers</strong></em>, they then claim that they have suffered from racial discrimination, when the reality is that it is racially discriminatory to hold black folks to a different behavioral standard on account of their skin pigmentation. A similar phenomenon can be seen with regard to the constant use of certain types of profanity, such as the socially offensive word which refers to a person who commits maternal incest, and also to the &#8220;n word&#8221;, which one is apparently allowed to say if one is black, judging by the behavior of a lot of inner city black folks. </p>
<p>Thanks to the &#8220;one drop rule,&#8221; mixed race people such as Lena Horne and Halle Berry have often identified themselves as &#8220;black,&#8221; even though they sometimes have such light skin that they can easily pass as white. How are such people supposed to decide whether or not they&#8217;re allowed to use &#8220;ebonics&#8221;? What&#8217;s the rule of thumb? If you take an opinion poll and the majority says that one subjectively looks black or at least &#8220;black enough,&#8221; then ebonics is O.K. or even expected? Talk about arbitrary!</p>
<p>I grew up in the Ozarks. Some of the people there spoke in a grammatically proper manner (as did I, thanks in part to the good influence of my maternal grandmother, who was an English teacher). Others (some of whom might have been described as &#8220;hillbillies&#8221;) did not. But we didn&#8217;t call it &#8220;hillbonics&#8221; or anything of the sort. We called it improper grammar, because that&#8217;s what it was. It is a disservice to children to teach them that ebonics is acceptable, because whether one likes it or not, the decision makers in this country do judge by first impressions. Speaking ebonics suggests that a person never paid close attention in the classroom, if he or she even went to class at all.</p>
<p>I guarantee you that Barack Obama never would have been elected President if he&#8217;d spoken the way that a lot of the blacks in Chicago speak. Perhaps if he&#8217;d just wanted to be elected alderman in a predominantly black ward, folks there wouldn&#8217;t have cared (unless he&#8217;d been a Republican, in which case he could just about kiss his chances of election goodbye, since there&#8217;s only one Republican alderman in the entire city of Chicago, according to a recent article in the Reader). But why kill one&#8217;s chances of further political advancement in the larger world? How exactly is that a form of empowerment?</p>
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		<title>By: Ruth</title>
		<link>http://www.makestupidityhistory.org/2005/07/20/teaching-ebonics-in-school/comment-page-1/#comment-10771</link>
		<dc:creator>Ruth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jun 2010 01:39:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.makestupidityhistory.org/?p=22#comment-10771</guid>
		<description>I completely agree with Brian, and I don&#039;t think the goal is to TEACH ebonics, but rather to use it as a foundation to guide ebonics speakers toward speaking &quot;standard&quot; English, which in my opinion is hardly standard. The English language is one of the most complex languages to teach people. It has and will continue to evolve just as long as people utilize it; the wide-spread use of ebonics is evidence of this evolution. In regards to Rick&#039;s comment, which is first on the list, if people were not so close minded, perhaps the issue of ebonics as its own language would never have been an issue in the first place.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I completely agree with Brian, and I don&#8217;t think the goal is to TEACH ebonics, but rather to use it as a foundation to guide ebonics speakers toward speaking &#8220;standard&#8221; English, which in my opinion is hardly standard. The English language is one of the most complex languages to teach people. It has and will continue to evolve just as long as people utilize it; the wide-spread use of ebonics is evidence of this evolution. In regards to Rick&#8217;s comment, which is first on the list, if people were not so close minded, perhaps the issue of ebonics as its own language would never have been an issue in the first place.</p>
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		<title>By: stephen</title>
		<link>http://www.makestupidityhistory.org/2005/07/20/teaching-ebonics-in-school/comment-page-1/#comment-10662</link>
		<dc:creator>stephen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 02:42:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.makestupidityhistory.org/?p=22#comment-10662</guid>
		<description>You really think kids should be taught improper English? That&#039;s ignorant within itself. Schools are a place for education and bettering ones self. A class that teaches children to talk in the worst way possible is just plain stupid. learning &quot;ebonics&quot; won&#039;t help you get a job. The only thing it will do is help you look completely and utterly ignorant like anyone who speaks that way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You really think kids should be taught improper English? That&#8217;s ignorant within itself. Schools are a place for education and bettering ones self. A class that teaches children to talk in the worst way possible is just plain stupid. learning &#8220;ebonics&#8221; won&#8217;t help you get a job. The only thing it will do is help you look completely and utterly ignorant like anyone who speaks that way.</p>
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		<title>By: Varg</title>
		<link>http://www.makestupidityhistory.org/2005/07/20/teaching-ebonics-in-school/comment-page-1/#comment-10653</link>
		<dc:creator>Varg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Feb 2010 23:10:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.makestupidityhistory.org/?p=22#comment-10653</guid>
		<description>Teaching Ebonics in the classroom is as ignorant and stupid as teaching Spanglish to Spanish speakers. This Article truly belongs in this website.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Teaching Ebonics in the classroom is as ignorant and stupid as teaching Spanglish to Spanish speakers. This Article truly belongs in this website.</p>
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		<title>By: Johann</title>
		<link>http://www.makestupidityhistory.org/2005/07/20/teaching-ebonics-in-school/comment-page-1/#comment-10645</link>
		<dc:creator>Johann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Feb 2010 20:07:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.makestupidityhistory.org/?p=22#comment-10645</guid>
		<description>I was born in 1946 in South St Louis.  It was right after WWII and S. St Louis was pretty much German/Irish and many of the Germans were first generation Americans.  Many German born and American-First Born spoke with German Accents and spoke German in the Home.  It was common to be on a Bus, in a Store, in the Neighborhood and hear German being spoken.  

Some of these German kids were still speaking with an Accent in the &#039;60&#039;s in High School.  With One Very Important difference.  Their Parents understood that it was imperitive that their children learn and speak Proper English to succeed.  Most still spoke German but also came to speak impeccable English.  I stay in touch with many of these children of WWII.  Almost ALL are very successful and speak Proper English.  Oddly enough, we went to school with many other Eastern European kids (Serbian, Croation, Hungarian, etc.) that also experienced the same.   

There isn&#039;t a Good Excuse for Black Children to speak Ebonics.  Failure is laziness.  And speaking Ebonics at Home would be an easier transition to Standard English that German, Spanish, Japanese, etc.  Time to STOP making excuses.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was born in 1946 in South St Louis.  It was right after WWII and S. St Louis was pretty much German/Irish and many of the Germans were first generation Americans.  Many German born and American-First Born spoke with German Accents and spoke German in the Home.  It was common to be on a Bus, in a Store, in the Neighborhood and hear German being spoken.  </p>
<p>Some of these German kids were still speaking with an Accent in the &#8217;60&#8217;s in High School.  With One Very Important difference.  Their Parents understood that it was imperitive that their children learn and speak Proper English to succeed.  Most still spoke German but also came to speak impeccable English.  I stay in touch with many of these children of WWII.  Almost ALL are very successful and speak Proper English.  Oddly enough, we went to school with many other Eastern European kids (Serbian, Croation, Hungarian, etc.) that also experienced the same.   </p>
<p>There isn&#8217;t a Good Excuse for Black Children to speak Ebonics.  Failure is laziness.  And speaking Ebonics at Home would be an easier transition to Standard English that German, Spanish, Japanese, etc.  Time to STOP making excuses.</p>
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		<title>By: Tammy</title>
		<link>http://www.makestupidityhistory.org/2005/07/20/teaching-ebonics-in-school/comment-page-1/#comment-10593</link>
		<dc:creator>Tammy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 03:34:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.makestupidityhistory.org/?p=22#comment-10593</guid>
		<description>Ebonics is not only spoken by blacks. Many whites down south speak the very same Ebonics. People learn language through social interactions, not through the media and reading books. The environment in which someone is in greatly influences the language that they use. I agree with Brain&#039;s comments. I also believe that children should learn how to code-switch.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ebonics is not only spoken by blacks. Many whites down south speak the very same Ebonics. People learn language through social interactions, not through the media and reading books. The environment in which someone is in greatly influences the language that they use. I agree with Brain&#8217;s comments. I also believe that children should learn how to code-switch.</p>
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		<title>By: Bran</title>
		<link>http://www.makestupidityhistory.org/2005/07/20/teaching-ebonics-in-school/comment-page-1/#comment-10588</link>
		<dc:creator>Bran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Oct 2009 02:06:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.makestupidityhistory.org/?p=22#comment-10588</guid>
		<description>Afro-American children speak ebonics which is an English Dialect. We should respect their uniqueness instead of trying to teach them that their use of English is wrong. We should try to teach them using ebonics when possible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Afro-American children speak ebonics which is an English Dialect. We should respect their uniqueness instead of trying to teach them that their use of English is wrong. We should try to teach them using ebonics when possible.</p>
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		<title>By: twan</title>
		<link>http://www.makestupidityhistory.org/2005/07/20/teaching-ebonics-in-school/comment-page-1/#comment-10584</link>
		<dc:creator>twan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Oct 2009 23:25:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.makestupidityhistory.org/?p=22#comment-10584</guid>
		<description>no, &quot;do dat&quot; is not complete enough to be ebonics. it&#039;s just short hand spelling. if you were to say &quot;why you do that?&quot; instead of &quot;why did you do that?&quot; then it would be considered ebonics.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>no, &#8220;do dat&#8221; is not complete enough to be ebonics. it&#8217;s just short hand spelling. if you were to say &#8220;why you do that?&#8221; instead of &#8220;why did you do that?&#8221; then it would be considered ebonics.</p>
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		<title>By: james</title>
		<link>http://www.makestupidityhistory.org/2005/07/20/teaching-ebonics-in-school/comment-page-1/#comment-10305</link>
		<dc:creator>james</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 May 2009 13:26:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.makestupidityhistory.org/?p=22#comment-10305</guid>
		<description>question? is do dat ebonics? instead of do that?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>question? is do dat ebonics? instead of do that?</p>
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		<title>By: wtf</title>
		<link>http://www.makestupidityhistory.org/2005/07/20/teaching-ebonics-in-school/comment-page-1/#comment-10231</link>
		<dc:creator>wtf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Apr 2009 18:17:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.makestupidityhistory.org/?p=22#comment-10231</guid>
		<description>agreed with malia you are put threw no more of a struggle than any one else living from your same house hold income or lack there of than anyone else with the exact same means white black fucking purple idc its leaders who make a change not followers and beggars</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>agreed with malia you are put threw no more of a struggle than any one else living from your same house hold income or lack there of than anyone else with the exact same means white black fucking purple idc its leaders who make a change not followers and beggars</p>
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		<title>By: Malia</title>
		<link>http://www.makestupidityhistory.org/2005/07/20/teaching-ebonics-in-school/comment-page-1/#comment-10215</link>
		<dc:creator>Malia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Mar 2009 03:51:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.makestupidityhistory.org/?p=22#comment-10215</guid>
		<description>This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard of. I have a friend who was raised in Inglewood and he spoke perfect eloquent English. His brother spoke ebonics. His brother told him only gays spoke in correct English. It&#039;s not like Blacks aren&#039;t exposed to proper English. They&#039;re allowed to read books, they go to school like the rest of us, they watch the same television shows and movies that we do. If they chose to speak correctly they could. But instead they think they&#039;re too cool. They think the white man is keeping them down when they are keeping themselves down.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard of. I have a friend who was raised in Inglewood and he spoke perfect eloquent English. His brother spoke ebonics. His brother told him only gays spoke in correct English. It&#8217;s not like Blacks aren&#8217;t exposed to proper English. They&#8217;re allowed to read books, they go to school like the rest of us, they watch the same television shows and movies that we do. If they chose to speak correctly they could. But instead they think they&#8217;re too cool. They think the white man is keeping them down when they are keeping themselves down.</p>
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		<title>By: Karen</title>
		<link>http://www.makestupidityhistory.org/2005/07/20/teaching-ebonics-in-school/comment-page-1/#comment-10168</link>
		<dc:creator>Karen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 07:10:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.makestupidityhistory.org/?p=22#comment-10168</guid>
		<description>This is one of the most disturbing things I&#039;ve ever read.  I do agree with Jason though, the topic would be best studied in a college sociology course.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is one of the most disturbing things I&#8217;ve ever read.  I do agree with Jason though, the topic would be best studied in a college sociology course.</p>
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		<title>By: brian</title>
		<link>http://www.makestupidityhistory.org/2005/07/20/teaching-ebonics-in-school/comment-page-1/#comment-10139</link>
		<dc:creator>brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Dec 2008 17:04:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.makestupidityhistory.org/?p=22#comment-10139</guid>
		<description>The point you all fail to acknowledge is that Black Students struggle learning reading and writing in Standard English because no one speaks it in their homes or communities.  It&#039;s similar to taking a intro level Spanish class and then being dumped into conversational Spanish.  Perhaps you could follow somewhat, but most of it would be unfamiliar.  Then, imagine if no one corrected your mistakes; you would continue making the same ones over and over again.  In 1989 Hanni Taylor performed a study where she split a class of African American students in half.  In one half, she taught English the way you would teach middle-class, standard English speakers.  The other half, she corrected all the mistakes that were made and explained how in ebonics something can be said one way and in Standard English another.  She would take the time to go through the grammatical differences.  When her study was done 11 weeks later.  The first group had an 8.5% INCREASE of ebonics in their writing (by teaching them only Standard English as it has been in this country since the dawn of public education) while the second group, the group taught contrastive analysis through ebonics, had a 59% DECREASE of ebonics in their writing.  
The idea of teaching ebonics is not to teach it as a second language or as an appropriate substitute, as many Americans fear.  Rather, it&#039;s to give students training in a familiar dialect and to later gradually introduce them to Standard English so they can tell the difference.  The same thing happened with immigrants in the 1800s, when most of the U.S. ancestory came to this nation.  They gradually &quot;assimilated&quot;.  It&#039;s been a long time coming, but these methods should be used in public schools, not to make Ebonics a second language, but to guide students to better excel in an educationally-centric nation</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The point you all fail to acknowledge is that Black Students struggle learning reading and writing in Standard English because no one speaks it in their homes or communities.  It&#8217;s similar to taking a intro level Spanish class and then being dumped into conversational Spanish.  Perhaps you could follow somewhat, but most of it would be unfamiliar.  Then, imagine if no one corrected your mistakes; you would continue making the same ones over and over again.  In 1989 Hanni Taylor performed a study where she split a class of African American students in half.  In one half, she taught English the way you would teach middle-class, standard English speakers.  The other half, she corrected all the mistakes that were made and explained how in ebonics something can be said one way and in Standard English another.  She would take the time to go through the grammatical differences.  When her study was done 11 weeks later.  The first group had an 8.5% INCREASE of ebonics in their writing (by teaching them only Standard English as it has been in this country since the dawn of public education) while the second group, the group taught contrastive analysis through ebonics, had a 59% DECREASE of ebonics in their writing.<br />
The idea of teaching ebonics is not to teach it as a second language or as an appropriate substitute, as many Americans fear.  Rather, it&#8217;s to give students training in a familiar dialect and to later gradually introduce them to Standard English so they can tell the difference.  The same thing happened with immigrants in the 1800s, when most of the U.S. ancestory came to this nation.  They gradually &#8220;assimilated&#8221;.  It&#8217;s been a long time coming, but these methods should be used in public schools, not to make Ebonics a second language, but to guide students to better excel in an educationally-centric nation</p>
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		<title>By: stephanie</title>
		<link>http://www.makestupidityhistory.org/2005/07/20/teaching-ebonics-in-school/comment-page-1/#comment-10060</link>
		<dc:creator>stephanie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Oct 2008 05:20:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.makestupidityhistory.org/?p=22#comment-10060</guid>
		<description>its ok to voice your opinion, but unacceptable when its voiced in an ignorant way. there were many different ways to state these same feeling without speaking so unsound.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>its ok to voice your opinion, but unacceptable when its voiced in an ignorant way. there were many different ways to state these same feeling without speaking so unsound.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason in Rancho</title>
		<link>http://www.makestupidityhistory.org/2005/07/20/teaching-ebonics-in-school/comment-page-1/#comment-10055</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason in Rancho</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Sep 2008 07:11:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.makestupidityhistory.org/?p=22#comment-10055</guid>
		<description>I think Ebonics in the classroom is a bad idea.  Ebonics itself is a worthy topic of study, but may be best studied in a forum of higher education, not in the public schools.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Ebonics in the classroom is a bad idea.  Ebonics itself is a worthy topic of study, but may be best studied in a forum of higher education, not in the public schools.</p>
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